Am I the only one who keeps hearing “Circumstances” by Rush in their head every
time they see the subject of this thread?
Paul Braun WD9GCO
Amateur Radio Newsline Anchor
ARNewsline.org
Certified Music Junkie
"Music washes from the soul the dust of everyday life." -- Berthold Auerbach
"The fountain of youth is a state of mind." - Jim Peterik, The Ides Of March
"Never follow anyone. Be your own hero." -- Neil Peart
"Deep inside we're all the same." - Dennis DeYoung
> On Feb 5, 2025, at 15:49, Ken Norton <ken@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Wayne Shumaker wrote:
>> I'm a sony convert so I feel OK to jump in...
>
> I was hoping you would. I actually went all crazy with SONY purchases
> in 2024 because of your and Moose's influence. My heart said "Olympus"
> but my head reminded me that for once in my life I needed to embrace
> at least ONE mainstream system along with the "artisan" system.
>
>
>> I once was an engineer, designing over sampled A/D converters (switched
>> capacitor analog circuits). The great thing about over sampled A/D is the
>> anti-alias filter in front could be very simple. Image sampling is the same
>> only in two dimensions. Hence the anti-alias filter on camera sensors.
>
> Exactly! The oversampling technology I helped develop ended up as
> cr@p, but the idea was correct.
>
>
>> One thing most don't realize about filters is the transient response, which
>> you alluded to. With a non-oversampled A/D, the anti-alias filter needs to be
>> sharper. However, the shaper a filter is the more over shoot there is in the
>> step response. If you restrict the step response of a low pass filter to no
>> overshoot, it smooths out the frequency response with the ideal being
>> a bessel filter. Not a very sharp filter frequency wise, but a very pleasant
>> transient response.
>
> And this is where oversampling has become a critical factor again. We
> are using oversampling for audio plugins that simulate an analog
> process within the digital realm. For example, if I throw a Pultec
> style EQ as an insert on one of my channels, the path of the audio
> goes into the plugin, get's processed, then returns to the channel.
> This insert actually simulates a complete D/A and A/D process.
> Depending on the plugin, I can turn oversampling on or off, and
> depending on what my project’s sample rate is, and the type of audio
> content, I do need to. My normal working sample rate is 96, so I
> almost always leave it off, but if I’m using 48, I do have to turn it
> on.
>
> One of my plugin makers has made the oversampling setting
> non-filtering. So overshoots can be brutal if not addressed by other
> means. But what is so nice about it is the spacial accuracy and the
> phase-coherence.
>
> Speaking of, as we know, adjusting EQ is a phase thing. Well, there
> are EQs that don’t change the phase. They sound different, and can get
> really nasty sounding. They are to be used very selectively.
>
>
>> I notice You are using an A9, which is 24mp. A7Rv is 62mp or about
>> 1.6 times more linear sampling. Sony has to make sharp lenses if
>> they are to match their cameras. My go to lenses are the 20-70/4 and
>> the 70-200/2.8 II with sometimes adding the 1.4x. Everyone has
>> there preferred system and it is a wonderful time for photography.
>
> The 70-200/2.8 GM II is a crazy good lens. I really love it, but, but,
> but… It was either that or the fleet of CDJ3000s, and the CDJ3000s won
> out. The CDJ3000s earn me magnitudes more money than the cameras do.
>
> Speaking of. One of the reasons the CDJ3000 decks cost so much is the
> internal processing. The deck converts all files, regardless of sample
> rate and bit depth to 96kHz and 32bit floating point. All speed and
> pitch adjustments are made with the uprezzed digital audio. It also
> applies some other secret sauce to simulate the effect that vinyl
> playback does in the creation of overtones. I’ve never had a playback
> device actually IMPROVE the sound before. It’s uncanny. These are the
> decks that are used for the headliner acts at festivals and clubs
> around the world, so the proof is in the pudding as to how good these
> decks are. Even a low-rez MP3 sounds better on these decks.
> Feature-wise, they are dumb as bricks, but there is no denying their
> audio quality. (You can speed change without pitch shifting, in real
> time, by about +/- 20% without hearing any artifacts, and +/- 50% with
> mixed with something else to blend the artifacts. It’s absolutely
> bonkers. Serato’s Pitch-n-Time is also extremely good, but this is
> much gooder. I can do anything I want, pitch change or speed
> change—even actively doing both without artifacts. (There are limits
> to how good, but those limits are usually aesthetically limits for the
> performance anyway. (Just because I can play a 80 BPM song at 140 BPM
> doesn’t mean I should, although sometimes I do).
>
> Continuing on with this topic that nobody else cares about…
>
> The CDJ3000 has both analog outputs (standard stupid RCAs) and a
> digital output. The newer mixers have both types of inputs. The DJM-A9
> mixer I also got (everything is latest greatest) is a digital mixer.
> Everything is done in the digital realm. With the CDJ3000 and DJM-A9
> (or V10) combination, nothing hits analog until it eventually hits a
> D/A, which can be in the mixer, or in some other downstream device. We
> can go digital out of the DJM-A9 to the FoH system if we want, and in
> a full Dante setup, it never hits analog until the amplifiers.
>
> I mention this because there are people who prefer the sound of the
> double-convert, by going out of the CDJ3000 with analog into the
> DJM-A9 where it gets reconverted into 96/32 all over again. These
> converters are good enough (this stuff is stupid pricy, and the
> DJM-Euphonia, DJM-A9 and DJM-V10 have converters that are VERY good),
> that any differences in sound quality are negligible at best. How good
> is my DJM-A9 as a mixer? Good enough that I am currently using it as
> my primary mixer and audio interface in my studio. (Yes, it is also an
> audio interface for computers).
>
> To further continue on with this nonsense, “summing” is one of those
> things that is more black arts than science. We learned that back in
> 1993 when I was involved in DAW development. We had to apply a
> dithering process to the summing algorithm to get it to sound right.
> Just like in photography, if I overlay two images together I can get
> aliasing artifacts. However, if I ever so slightly randomize the two
> images (blur, low-pass filter, dither), the aliasing artifacts are
> reduced or eliminated. Same thing with audio. The thing I IMMEDIATELY
> noticed with my DJM-A9 mixer was that they got the summing algorithm
> pretty much perfect. I threw a couple of tracks at it that were
> intense with square and saw waves (typical D&B and bass-house using
> REESE Bass sounds) and it was flawless. Stuff that will choke my
> Computer/Controller system passed through the CDJ3000/DJMA9 combo with
> ease. I know it’s not using hi/low pass filtering because the
> phase-coherency is maintained.
>
> Anyway, that’s why I’m eating Raman these days. Typical DJ in that my
> equipment costs more than the vehicle it’s being carried to the gig
> in. And I drive a BMW.
>
>
>> When I go back to my A7iii images, 24mp, I rarely feel there is not
>> enough resolution.
>
> I really considered the R version of things. It’s not so much the
> resolution gain for resolution sake that I notice. It’s the glassier,
> more transparent look to the images at higher ISOs. But I’m not
> printing much of anything these days, so with the downsizing for
> digital display and consumption, it’s not anything I would really ever
> see, and I address that in Lightroom anyway through other means. 24mp
> is my comfort size and those files are already too large as it is.
>
> DJ Schnozz
> --
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