On 3/20/2015 7:18 PM, Tina Manley wrote:
Thank you, Scott. Obviously, I don't keep up. ;-)
I'm about to go over the edge.
It seems to me that several things are going on here. My observations:
1. It seems to me there is a problem of definition confusing folks. You continue to use the word 'editing' to mean
something more like parsing, winnowing selecting, rating - the process of selecting from a vast array of images those
worth looking at a second or third time and possibly of processing into finished images.
To many on this list, perhaps even most, 'editing' is analogous to the use of the same word in its original context,
reworking the details of a text piece into a finished manuscript. In that sense, it tends to be synonymous with 'post
processing'.
So you keep saying you want help with 'editing', when you mean selecting, and many of us/we/I, hear 'processing into a
finished product'.
2. I have found over the years here that it is impossible to post an image in order to point out one aspect of it -
without getting responses commenting on other aspects. So even when illustrating something very specific, I've learned
to pay attention to all the other aspects of it as a finished image before posting. In practice, it seems the only way
to get attention focused on what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that you should, or have the time, to do this, only
that what you are getting is what you should expect.
This may not be how it should be, but is how it is. It's seldom true of all commenters, always true of at least some,
often a majority.
3. It is often really difficult to tell before further processing which are keepers. This may be where only the creator
is fully capable of judging. An extreme, but I hope illustrative, example is St. Ansel's "Moonrise, Hernandez, NM". I've
viewed two large prints of it side by side, one straight from the negative, no manipulation, and the other a mature
exhibition print. I think the majority of viewers, looking at a straight contact print, would have passed on by. Adams
wouldn't, because he had a vision, an image in his head already, before the shot was taken, of what the finished image
might look like.
Asking others to judge your photographs, in raw, unformed condition, is in a way abdicating your artistic power and
responsibility. Not that it's necessarily a terrible idea, but this may be a part of your frustration with the process.
4. Your idea of what you are doing is not the same as the understandings of most of us here, or perhaps I should say the
way many here practice photography. I, and many others here, have an artistic model of creating a relative few,
carefully considered and processed images that are like other singular works of art and sometimes sets of related
images, produced in much the same way.
You are primarily engaged in producing large, to me, very large, groups of images that are largely driven by subject
matter, and that may be categorized and put up for sale as illustrations through a stock agency. If I go there and
search for "Cuba, boy, bicycle, fish", I might find one of your images and buy use of it.
Sure, you want them to look good, at least workmanlike, when possible, better, but this majority, and the focus of your
initial "editing", are not about very finely wrought individual images. This way of working is simply alien to me, not
wrong, but not something I really understand/relate to. When I hit the second or third similar - to me - image of
Vietnamese fisher folk with their cute round boats, and see there are many more, I'm gone. I am interested in seeing
your one or two best takes on these people and the way they make their living - in your fully finished versions.
5. You have different ideas of what makes a good photo than some here. Your love of shallow DOF, even when it misses the
primary plane of the subject or results in big blobs of mushy noses in front of tack sharp eyes, will never work for me.
I've commented, often with illustrations, more than often enough, and don't bother any more.
6. As you say, you have a tendency to head off in whatever direction comments lead, usually, apparently, without
considering whether the suggestions are useful to what you think the image should look like. You should be asking
yourself "Does this kind of change make me like the image better or not?" before any action. And perhaps, "Does this
kind of change make the image more salable or not?" As you have found out, any other approach is a huge time waster, and
will tend to make you crazy.
7. I wonder if you are winnowing in the most efficient way, but I don't see what goes on before you post many fewer
images here than you have taken.
Personally, I've seen few of your Cuba images. Starting with the first, I saw potential for making some into better
images, worked over a couple, then remembered that they are just an intermediate step of the selection process, and it's
not my job to play Huck to your Tom. One of these days, I'll probably browse through the thumbnails, to find those that
I'd like to see larger. (I did find it amusing that what I saw as the strongest of the early few I looked at, Cigar
Lady, appears to have been composed not by the photographer, but by the subject, sitting, waiting for photographers to
happen by, recognize her art and capture it.)
I love sharing images with others, and sharing ways in which they might be improved. I've learned an incredible amount
about taking and processing photos here and elsewhere on the web, and I love sharing what I know, in the hope that it
will help others realize their own images in a way that pleases them.
OTOH, when I use my specialized expertise for others on projects with commercial value/intent, in a different field, I
charge $250/hr. I don't look for work, as I really am retired, but a few thousand $ here or there doesn't hurt.* I don't
see why helping you to select images and decide how to make them better/more salable should be free unless it entertains me.
Perhaps some or all of the above may provide you an answer to your occasional
plaints about getting few comments.
I appreciate your comments!
I hope so!
* In fact, I am in part writing this now to avoid diving into another piece of
that work. Photography is more fun!
Tina
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Scott Gomez <sgomez.baja@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
As much as I can see Philippe's point in his sample, I happen to think that
the golden tones of the image as posted by Tina bring something wonderful
to the image.
Hang in there, Tina! We all have opinions about the images you post, and
perhaps some synthesis of the comments you receive will lead to what you
want for a given image. The important thing to keep in mind is that they
are your images, and while we may all provide input, ultimately they have
to please you, not us.
The sheer volume of images you're processing must be nearly overwhelming.
Frankly, I don't know how you keep up.
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Tina Manley <tmanley@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I should make it clear that this is MY problem, not the problem of anyone
who is trying to help. It is my trap that I have made for myself. I
need
to learn to filter out what I can use and what is irrelevant to my
editing. I take every comment entirely too seriously which is a problem
I
have had all of my life and has nothing to do with fiddling with exposure
settings or anything else. I just need help editing content. I would
love
to hire a full-time editor. I can't. I appreciate any comments I can get
on content.
Tina
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:09 AM, Tina Manley <tmanley@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
But now it doesn't look like dawn which was the whole point to me.
I have fallen into the trap, again, of trying to adjust my photos to
please everyone. I will never get through 16,000 edits at this rate.
Right now, all I am doing is going through the photos as quickly as I
can
and selecting those which might merit more detailed work later. I hit
Auto
in LR to get in the ballpark. LR adjustments are non-destructive and I
can
go back to the untouched photo at any time. I post the ones I am
considering and hope for comments on the content and/or composition.
Anything to do with white balance, exposure, lifting shadows,
suppressing
highlights, contrast, spotting, sharpening can and will be done much
later,
after I have finished all of the editing.
Maybe I should just post the photos straight from LR with no
adjustments
at all? Or maybe I should just not post them at all. It's too
discouraging and demoralizing.
Thank you,
Tina
On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 6:54 AM, philippe.amard <philippe.amard@xxxxxx
wrote:
I was wondering why the combo didn't deliver what it should have and
may
have found the WB to be the main cause.
Please view this before/after screenshot.
http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/407159-1/Image+1.png
And I went a little further although starting from the jpeg
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/Phileica/Playground/Image+2.png.html
I think that editing from the RAF would work wonders
Hope this helps
Philippe
One sees clearly only with the heart. What is essential is invisible
to
the eye. Antoine de Saint Exupéry in Le Petit Prince.
NO ARCHIVE
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