Ken Norton wrote:
>> You have a nice understanding woman there. My first wife seemed to have the
>> philosophy "we are now one and I am the one".
>>
>
>
> Better be careful there. We don't want you to experience the wrath of Moose.
>
No problem here. His reference was to specific, named personal
experience, not some generalization to wives in general nor projection
onto the wife of another who is entirely unknown to the person making
the projection.
I really hope you can see the difference between John's statement 'My
first wife seemed to have the philosophy "we are now one and I am the
one"' and your statement "He may not know when, or how, but she WILL get
Dawid for that. His day of doom is coming."
Yes, I know you didn't intend any actual comment on Dawid's wife, but
used her in an attempt at more general humor about wife stereotypes. I
had dropped this, but as you continue, I appear to be goadable. ---
Ken Norton wrote:
> A Typical Moose wrote:
>
>
>> I still object to the projection of personal experience and/or stereotype
>> onto everyone else's wives and partners.
>>
>
> As has been previously mentioned, stereotypes exist for a reason.
Actually, for more than one. One is, of course, social shorthand for
commonly encountred characteristics.
Another, and far more problematic, is to reinforce untrue beliefs used
to repress groups based on racial, ethnic, gender or other biases.
If you made comments about your cute, stereotypical failings at dancing
and how they compared to the natural senses of rhythm and movement of
Blacks who mocked you for them, you'd rightly be chastised for using
stereotypes to belittle a minority.
How is making a stereotypical comment/joke about all wives different?
Do you believe women in our society have reached full equality?
> I know you object to my comment, and yes, attempt at humor was implied. Your
> sensitivity to this issue is not necessarily representative of the rest of
> us.
By us, whom do you mean? You've taken a survey on this list? In Iowa?
The Nation? The World? Or are you taking your own opinions as generalizable?
> I'm happy for you that you have such a wonderful relationship where you never
> make mistakes
Of course I make mistakes. I also apologize, clean up the consequences
and generally do better going forward. If I disagree with the
complaints, I make my case. She does the same in the other direction.
> or get the wrath of the CDFO.
"Wrath?" How Old Testament. Wrath isn't appropriate at any time in any
intimate relationship, as far as I am concerned.
> But I'm of the more typical marriage relationship
Data? References? Or are we back to "everybody knows", stereotypes and
sitcoms?
> where I get "reminded" of the need to pick up my socks, stop leaving camera
> equipment laying round in the middle of the living-room floor and
> systematically dispatched for my typical male frailities.
>
> It's not the fault of SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed), as I'm well experienced
> in being the source of much angst in her life. :)
>
Far be it from me to suggest changes in anybody's choices of how to live
their domestic life. However - should you ever get tired of that way of
living, you might try acting like a self regulating adult, taking care
of your own stuff, having compassion for your partner's failings and,
where there is a true difference of opinion about how two should live
together, talking it out and finding common ground.
An odd thing I have observed is that when one part of a pair cleans up
their emotional and behavioral act, their partner often seems to change
for the better with little or no effort. "He/She is like a changed
person!" If my partner is repeatedly upset at my behavior, is that her
fault, mine, or are we both playing out a script inherited from parents
and/or social stereotypes. If the game isn't enjoyable, why not stop?
In my case, both parties have failings, of various degrees of annoyance
to the other. I do find it amazing how often what is perceived as a
failing that upsets the other turns out, upon calm, loving,
compassionate discussion, to be simple failure to communicate and/or
understand.
Some things turn out to be just the way someone is, and I can't see
where endless nagging does any good, either in changing behavior or
making life pleasant for either party. Both my sons, around the onset of
adolescence, started dropping clothes, towels, and such on the floor and
leaving them. I could have just spent the next few years angry and nagging.
Instead, I observed what was happening and talked about it with them.
Really interesting. It was like these thing simply dropped out of their
consciousness once they were finished with them, one worse than the
other. So I decided to sometimes make them pick up particularly big
messes, but without rancor, let alone wrath. The rest I dealt with
(single parent at the time). I figured they would either grow out of it
or go inflict their failing on someone else. In any case, their
remaining time with me was limited. When the elder returned from a first
stab at college, I told him that as an adult member of the household, he
would have to behave differently than before. He understood, made his
choice, and was gone in a week. His slob ways lasted for a few years.
Now he's a neat person with daughters to clean up after. :-)
It seemed not unlike the body size thing when they had growth spurts.
Healthy, well coordinated boys would suddenly be banging into door
frames, tripping over stuff, etc. What happens is that the body itself
grows faster than the brain's image of its size. Apparently quite
common, and thinking back, it happened to me, too. The brain adjusts.
In Carol's case, there are simply a few things I'm happy to live with -
for as long as possible. For example, empty clear plastic bags in the
kitchen are simply not in her consciousness. If I ask her if there are
any there, she looks and sees them. But if she takes produce out of a
bag, or some such, it just disappears to her. She can nicely clean up
after I make a meal, everything clean and in its place - except for a
few scattered bags. So I take care of them. What's the big deal?
If, as I occasionally do, I am lazy and leave socks and underwear in the
corner for a couple of days, perhaps because the my hiking boots are
blocking my hamper, she ignores them and I eventually take care of them.
I don't mean to suggest that we have all the details worked out. Things
change, and regular attention to the relationship is necessary.
I guess what I can't understand is why anyone would persist in habits of
relationship behavior that cause anxiety, stress and unhappiness. Life
is, or can be, too pleasant a ride to do that, for me.
Moose
--
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