Thank you for posting the entire chain. Yuck, just shows that ebay (I
believe the owner of Paypal) has no interest in processing the facts and
how every transaction is at their mercy. I guess most of the time
transactions go well, but it's this kind of thing that makes me think
that ebay/paypal operates like a fly-by-night operation. Sorry for the
frutsration, makes me want to drink. Oh wait, I already am, gotta refill
my glass.
___________________________________
John Hermanson
Camtech Photo Services, Inc.
21 South Lane, Huntington NY 11743
631-424-2121 | Olympus OM Service since 1977
www.zuiko.com | omtech1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Remove 'spam' when writing
Gordon Ross wrote:
> Hi All:
>
> I post this so you can see that there is no, and I mean zero, protection for
> customers on evilbay and PayPal surprise, surprise- is even worse.
>
> Remember the battle I had with the guy who did the 'bait and switch' with
> the Zuiko 21/2.0?
>
> Well if you are interested here is the followup- The banks allowed a
> reversal and I kept the lens as he would not resolve it other than demanding
> the total fraudulent price. He got a 30 day suspension from evilbay and then
> they allowed him to erase my bad feedback! I got my PayPal account frozen,
> which is the topic below. Note: It reads from the bottom up.
>
> Gord
>
> PS: for those annoyed by the large post- I apologize, but this may help one
> of our list members.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
> To: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:30 AM
> Subject: WHRR QID381 (KMM35726272V37280L0KM) :kf1
>
>
>
>>Hi:
>>
>>You know what PayPal can do with it's unsigned agreement don't you?
>>
>>What is it like to work for a company operating in a moral vacuum?
>>
>>Have you ever been able to make a difference, a solution or a decision at
>>PayPal?
>>
>>I hope for your personal well being and mental health you find a better
>>place to have a career. It must be demoralizing forwarding these trashy
>>canned responses, my heart goes out to you.
>>
>>Gord
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:03 PM
>>Subject: Re: Re: We have received your response - WHRR QID381
>>(KMM35726272V37280L0KM) :kf1
>>
>>
>>Dear Gordon Ross,
>>
>>Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
>>happy to assist you further.
>>
>>In regards to your request to close your account, we are unable to do so
>>at this time as your PayPal account is in a limited access. This is in
>>the accordance with our User Agreement.
>>
>>Thank you for your cooperation.
>>
>>Please let me know if you need further assistance.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Kyoko
>>PayPal Chargeback Division
>>PayPal, an eBay Company
>>
>>Original Message Follows:
>>------------------------
>>Hi:
>>Yes, I could use your help. I definately want my account closed. Your
>>site says that Iam 'not allowed to close my account because of a 'dispute'
>>with a fraudulent vendor, that you have closed.
>>Frankly the fraud, and the solution to it that the two banks
>>(Canadian and Australian) agreed to, is none of your business,
>>especially since you failed to act on it. I had to rely on the integrity
>>of the banks to get a just decision, that is why they allowed
>>the chargeback. I do not owe PayPal any money nor have I caused
>>you any loss. If you will not close my account promptly I will go to the
>>trouble of closing all my accounts so the info you hold will be useless
>>anyway.
>>Please note: I will be going public with this failing a prompt solution.
>>Gord
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:53 AM
>>Subject: We have received your response - WHRR (KMM35619187V75589L0KM)
>>:kf1
>>merge name="Full Name" leading="Dear " trailing=","/>
>>We have received your reply regarding the disputed transaction. If you
>>have any additional information that will support your case please
>>forward it to us now. If you have no further information to supply,
>>please allow up to 30 days for our investigation to be completed.
>>Sincerely,
>>PayPal Chargeback Division
>>This email is sent to you by the contracting entity to your User
>>Agreement, either PayPal Inc or PayPal (Europe) Limited. PayPal(Europe)
>>Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority
>>in the UK as an electronic money institution.
>>************************************************************************
>>Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address will not
>>be answered.
>>************************************************************************
>>Your original request is below:
>>Hi:
>>That is too bad. PayPal really doesn't handle fraud well. You're vendor
>>bias is self-serving and convenient but it allows the few ugly vendors to
>>take advantage as your firm seems totally inflexible and uninterested in
>>truth or justice. So PayPal is corrupted by abetting the crime. Simply
>>put, you are supporting the person who created the problem.
>>Please cancel my account, I will not be swayed by your insensitive, one
>>sided biased approach. You can keep the criminal as a client as that is
>>your choice, and good luck to both of you. I will continue to deal with
>>more ethical firms.
>>Gord
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:59 PM
>>Subject: Re: Re: Restricted :cbkb-m (Routing Code: C124-L001-Q-T-S111)
>>QID381 (KMM35586252V50598L0KM) :kf1
>>Dear Gordon Ross,
>>Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
>>happy to assist you further.
>>PayPal is unable to assist you further until we receive the valid
>>tracking information showing that the merchandise has been returned to
>>the Seller.
>>Please continue to work with your seller directly.
>>Please let me know if you need further assistance.
>>Sincerely,
>>Kyoko
>>PayPal Chargeback Division
>>PayPal, an eBay Company
>>Original Message Follows:
>>------------------------
>>Hi:
>>If you read the info, you can see why I can do neither of your demands.
>>The seller did a fraud, the partial payment he received in cash is about
>>the
>>value of what he sent. I definately do not trust this guy and his totally
>>ignoring me for months and then his denials and lies meant that I had to
>>do the repairs myself to even use the lens, so I am not willing, nor is it
>>fair to ask that I return it, also I believe that he would not refund the
>>money that I did pay him.
>>If you cannot understand what both his bank and my bank understood -
>>that this was fraud, hence they both agreed to the reversal,
>>then just cancel my account, I like PayPal and have made $1000's of
>>dollars of purchases with your company. The long delay, lack of support
>>and the inflexibility that is being shown here leads me to believe that
>>you
>>should just cancel my account. There are many alternatives and the long
>>delay has meant that I have been using them. I like the link with Ebay
>>though
>>and would like to use your service but what you have sent here is
>>objectionable, yet another canned response and puts you in the position of
>>supporting the fraud (aiding and abetting) by automatically restricting my
>>service without any concern for the illegal activities of the seller.
>>I'm more than happy to hear from you if you have any other suggestions.
>>Gord
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:43 AM
>>Subject: Re: Restricted :cbkb-m (Routing Code: C124-L001-Q-T-S111)
>>QID381
>>(KMM35371519V30689L0KM) :kf1
>>Dear Gordon Ross,
>>Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.
>>Please provide us with proof that the merchandise has been returned to
>>the seller or provide us with reimbursement payment for the lens that
>>was received.
>>send a check to:
>>PayPal Accounting Dept.
>>P.O. Box 45950
>>Omaha, NE 68145-0950
>>Sincerely,
>>Beth
>>PayPal Chargeback Division
>>PayPal, an eBay Company
>>Original Message Follows:
>>------------------------
>>Form Message
>>customer message: PLEASE DO NOT SEND YET ANOTHER FORM LETTER IN
>>RESPONSE- I WILL NOT RE-IMBURSE A FRAUD SO DO NOT ASK AGAIN (form letter)
>>EITHER READ THIS AND HELP RESOLVE IT OR JUST GO AHEAD AND CLOSE MY
>>ACCOUNT.
>> There is a ton of info already filed with PayPal about this case,
>>however, as a brief synopsis the following letter that I sent to the
>>felon,
>>seeking a final solution to his fraud, should provide a reasonable
>>overview.
>>The crime by the way was a bait and switch, showing a new lens getting top
>>money for it and then sending a used beater, it is fraud .(I know not
>>according
>>to PayPal, anything shipped absolves thieves of any action on your part).
>>I
>>have purchased thousands of dollars worth of gear mostly paid through
>>PayPal (up until this dispute). I have had no other problems at all and
>>feel
>>that being blacklisted by PayPal for defending myself against a fraud is
>>not
>>fair.-------------------------------------------------------------------
>>--------
>>-----------------
>>Robert Wallace
>>One condition that must be met in order to accomplish any resolution,
>>you must contact eBay and request removal of the libelous feedback that
>>you
>>left about me both on my site and yours, that accomplished I will then
>>settle
>>the payment.
>>Here is what you charged me--
>>$660.00 for lens
>>$17.25 for insurance (Aust equivalent = $23.00)
>>$10.20 for airmail fee + padded packaging (Aust equiv $12.50)
>>$27.50 for PayPal fee (at 4%) NOTE: this should not have been charged as
>>it against PayPal rules
>>
>>Total $714.95 ($139.52 was paid in cash and $575.43 by Visa)
>>
>>The $575.43 Visa payment was reversed due to the wrong lens being sent.
>>As you are well aware this reversal has been approved by eBay, PayPal, the
>>Royal Bank of Canada and the Merchant Bank of Australia. I believe that
>>you also were banned from eBay for 30 days, so please do not imply that
>>this was just brought to your attention. There are some adjustments to be
>>made.
>>The illegal Paypal fee overcharge of $27.50 will be subtracted. Also
>>$80.00
>>for the repair of the lens you sent (the cost of removing the contact
>>cement,
>>adjusting the focus ring play and replacing the focus ring rubber should
>>be
>>borne by yourself as your delay in resolving this left me with no choice
>>but to
>>make it operational so I could engage in photography for the last seven
>>months,
>>and you will be receiving the lens back in much better condition than you
>>sent it.
>>I promise also, to not just wrap it in a little bubble wrap and toss it in
>>an envelope
>>like you did, it will be boxed in styrofoam. We would have to subtract
>>$27.45
>>for the cost of insured airmail and padded packaging and I will prepay the
>>return shipping of the wrong lens that you sent.
>>So Payment in full would be-
>>$575.43
>>- 27.50 PayPal fee overcharge
>>- 80.00 repair cost
>>- 27.45 insured return airmail and packaging
>>
>>>Total $440.80
>>>
>>>I am prepared to pay this in full upon delivery of the correct lens.
>>>When can I expect delivery of the Zuiko 21/2.0 lens serial # 101680
>>>that I bought as pictured in your auction eBay Item #3809545405 ?
>>>I am of course expecting that since it was your error that you will
>>>cover the insured cost of shipping the correct lens to me and will
>>>package it well as it is a beautiful looking lens in your picture, that .
>>>would be much appreciated
>>>Upon receipt of the correct lens I will forward payment in full and
>>>return the lens that you mistakenly sent serial # 101664. Should
>>>you wish to cover the full cost for a reputable escrow service (I must
>>>approve of the choice), I am fine with allowing an independant agency
>>>to handle the exchange of lenses and my payment in full. I can assure
>>>you that you do not need to go to this expense as I have been eager
>>>to get this resolved since April 13th when I first contacted you and
>>>have a great interest in getting the actual lens that I purchased. I am
>>>afraid that I must set a 30 day window on this as it has dragged on
>>>way too long, failure on your part to honor the original sale by
>>>Dec. 10th will force me to accept the loss of the $139.52 that you
>>>have of my money, the cost of repair of the wrong lens you sent,
>>>time loss preparing briefs for eBay, PayPal, Royal Bank and
>>>Merchant Bank, at that time I will accept the wrong lens as fair and
>>>equal settlement of these costs and will have no further contact or
>>>business of any kind with you.
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>Gordon John Ross CFP CLU ChFC RHU
>>>
>>>
>>>PS There are 500 witness's to all correspondence.
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:40 AM
>>>Subject: We have received your response - WHRR (KMM33370970V40415L0KM)
>>
>>:kf1
>>
>>>
>>>merge name="Full Name" leading="Dear " trailing=","/>
>>>
>>>We have received your reply regarding the disputed transaction. If you
>>>have any additional information that will support your case please
>>>forward it to us now. If you have no further information to supply,
>>>please allow up to 30 days for our investigation to be completed.
>>>
>>>Sincerely,
>>>PayPal Chargeback Division
>>>
>>>This email is sent to you by the contracting entity to your User
>>>Agreement, either PayPal Inc or PayPal (Europe) Limited. PayPal(Europe)
>>>Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority
>>>in the UK as an electronic money institution.
>>>
>>>>**********************************************************************
>>
>>**
>>
>>>Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address will not
>>>be
>>
>>answered.>**************************************************************
>>**********
>>
>>>Your original request is below:
>>>
>>>Form Message
>>>customer message: I followed all PayPals dispute resolution protocol,
>>>which did not protect me from fraud. The chargeback was approved by
>>>both the Canadian and Australian Banks as they could see the fraud.
>>>The seller was kicked off ebay, he received partial payment from me
>>>and since he would not rectify his fraud the payment he received that
>>>wasn't part of the chargeback was deemed to be fair value for the item
>>>he shipped. I will not consider re-opening this now old case, and will
>>>never pay any amount to the felon in question. My actions did no harm
>>>to PayPal and I request that this sorry episode not continue to cause my
>>>account to be limited. I await your response.
>>
>>Thanks Gord
>>
>
>
>
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