Hi All:
I post this so you can see that there is no, and I mean zero, protection for
customers on evilbay and PayPal surprise, surprise- is even worse.
Remember the battle I had with the guy who did the 'bait and switch' with
the Zuiko 21/2.0?
Well if you are interested here is the followup- The banks allowed a
reversal and I kept the lens as he would not resolve it other than demanding
the total fraudulent price. He got a 30 day suspension from evilbay and then
they allowed him to erase my bad feedback! I got my PayPal account frozen,
which is the topic below. Note: It reads from the bottom up.
Gord
PS: for those annoyed by the large post- I apologize, but this may help one
of our list members.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
To: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: WHRR QID381 (KMM35726272V37280L0KM) :kf1
> Hi:
>
> You know what PayPal can do with it's unsigned agreement don't you?
>
> What is it like to work for a company operating in a moral vacuum?
>
> Have you ever been able to make a difference, a solution or a decision at
> PayPal?
>
> I hope for your personal well being and mental health you find a better
> place to have a career. It must be demoralizing forwarding these trashy
> canned responses, my heart goes out to you.
>
> Gord
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 6:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: We have received your response - WHRR QID381
> (KMM35726272V37280L0KM) :kf1
>
>
> Dear Gordon Ross,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
> happy to assist you further.
>
> In regards to your request to close your account, we are unable to do so
> at this time as your PayPal account is in a limited access. This is in
> the accordance with our User Agreement.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation.
>
> Please let me know if you need further assistance.
>
> Sincerely,
> Kyoko
> PayPal Chargeback Division
> PayPal, an eBay Company
>
> Original Message Follows:
> ------------------------
> Hi:
> Yes, I could use your help. I definately want my account closed. Your
> site says that Iam 'not allowed to close my account because of a 'dispute'
> with a fraudulent vendor, that you have closed.
> Frankly the fraud, and the solution to it that the two banks
> (Canadian and Australian) agreed to, is none of your business,
> especially since you failed to act on it. I had to rely on the integrity
> of the banks to get a just decision, that is why they allowed
> the chargeback. I do not owe PayPal any money nor have I caused
> you any loss. If you will not close my account promptly I will go to the
> trouble of closing all my accounts so the info you hold will be useless
> anyway.
> Please note: I will be going public with this failing a prompt solution.
> Gord
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:53 AM
> Subject: We have received your response - WHRR (KMM35619187V75589L0KM)
> :kf1
> merge name="Full Name" leading="Dear " trailing=","/>
> We have received your reply regarding the disputed transaction. If you
> have any additional information that will support your case please
> forward it to us now. If you have no further information to supply,
> please allow up to 30 days for our investigation to be completed.
> Sincerely,
> PayPal Chargeback Division
> This email is sent to you by the contracting entity to your User
> Agreement, either PayPal Inc or PayPal (Europe) Limited. PayPal(Europe)
> Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority
> in the UK as an electronic money institution.
> ************************************************************************
> Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address will not
> be answered.
> ************************************************************************
> Your original request is below:
> Hi:
> That is too bad. PayPal really doesn't handle fraud well. You're vendor
> bias is self-serving and convenient but it allows the few ugly vendors to
> take advantage as your firm seems totally inflexible and uninterested in
> truth or justice. So PayPal is corrupted by abetting the crime. Simply
> put, you are supporting the person who created the problem.
> Please cancel my account, I will not be swayed by your insensitive, one
> sided biased approach. You can keep the criminal as a client as that is
> your choice, and good luck to both of you. I will continue to deal with
> more ethical firms.
> Gord
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Restricted :cbkb-m (Routing Code: C124-L001-Q-T-S111)
> QID381 (KMM35586252V50598L0KM) :kf1
> Dear Gordon Ross,
> Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
> happy to assist you further.
> PayPal is unable to assist you further until we receive the valid
> tracking information showing that the merchandise has been returned to
> the Seller.
> Please continue to work with your seller directly.
> Please let me know if you need further assistance.
> Sincerely,
> Kyoko
> PayPal Chargeback Division
> PayPal, an eBay Company
> Original Message Follows:
> ------------------------
> Hi:
> If you read the info, you can see why I can do neither of your demands.
> The seller did a fraud, the partial payment he received in cash is about
> the
> value of what he sent. I definately do not trust this guy and his totally
> ignoring me for months and then his denials and lies meant that I had to
> do the repairs myself to even use the lens, so I am not willing, nor is it
> fair to ask that I return it, also I believe that he would not refund the
> money that I did pay him.
> If you cannot understand what both his bank and my bank understood -
> that this was fraud, hence they both agreed to the reversal,
> then just cancel my account, I like PayPal and have made $1000's of
> dollars of purchases with your company. The long delay, lack of support
> and the inflexibility that is being shown here leads me to believe that
> you
> should just cancel my account. There are many alternatives and the long
> delay has meant that I have been using them. I like the link with Ebay
> though
> and would like to use your service but what you have sent here is
> objectionable, yet another canned response and puts you in the position of
> supporting the fraud (aiding and abetting) by automatically restricting my
> service without any concern for the illegal activities of the seller.
> I'm more than happy to hear from you if you have any other suggestions.
> Gord
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Restricted :cbkb-m (Routing Code: C124-L001-Q-T-S111)
> QID381
> (KMM35371519V30689L0KM) :kf1
> Dear Gordon Ross,
> Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.
> Please provide us with proof that the merchandise has been returned to
> the seller or provide us with reimbursement payment for the lens that
> was received.
> send a check to:
> PayPal Accounting Dept.
> P.O. Box 45950
> Omaha, NE 68145-0950
> Sincerely,
> Beth
> PayPal Chargeback Division
> PayPal, an eBay Company
> Original Message Follows:
> ------------------------
> Form Message
> customer message: PLEASE DO NOT SEND YET ANOTHER FORM LETTER IN
> RESPONSE- I WILL NOT RE-IMBURSE A FRAUD SO DO NOT ASK AGAIN (form letter)
> EITHER READ THIS AND HELP RESOLVE IT OR JUST GO AHEAD AND CLOSE MY
> ACCOUNT.
> There is a ton of info already filed with PayPal about this case,
> however, as a brief synopsis the following letter that I sent to the
> felon,
> seeking a final solution to his fraud, should provide a reasonable
> overview.
> The crime by the way was a bait and switch, showing a new lens getting top
> money for it and then sending a used beater, it is fraud .(I know not
> according
> to PayPal, anything shipped absolves thieves of any action on your part).
> I
> have purchased thousands of dollars worth of gear mostly paid through
> PayPal (up until this dispute). I have had no other problems at all and
> feel
> that being blacklisted by PayPal for defending myself against a fraud is
> not
> fair.-------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> -----------------
> Robert Wallace
> One condition that must be met in order to accomplish any resolution,
> you must contact eBay and request removal of the libelous feedback that
> you
> left about me both on my site and yours, that accomplished I will then
> settle
> the payment.
> Here is what you charged me--
> $660.00 for lens
> $17.25 for insurance (Aust equivalent = $23.00)
> $10.20 for airmail fee + padded packaging (Aust equiv $12.50)
> $27.50 for PayPal fee (at 4%) NOTE: this should not have been charged as
> it against PayPal rules
>
> Total $714.95 ($139.52 was paid in cash and $575.43 by Visa)
>
> The $575.43 Visa payment was reversed due to the wrong lens being sent.
> As you are well aware this reversal has been approved by eBay, PayPal, the
> Royal Bank of Canada and the Merchant Bank of Australia. I believe that
> you also were banned from eBay for 30 days, so please do not imply that
> this was just brought to your attention. There are some adjustments to be
> made.
> The illegal Paypal fee overcharge of $27.50 will be subtracted. Also
> $80.00
> for the repair of the lens you sent (the cost of removing the contact
> cement,
> adjusting the focus ring play and replacing the focus ring rubber should
> be
> borne by yourself as your delay in resolving this left me with no choice
> but to
> make it operational so I could engage in photography for the last seven
> months,
> and you will be receiving the lens back in much better condition than you
> sent it.
> I promise also, to not just wrap it in a little bubble wrap and toss it in
> an envelope
> like you did, it will be boxed in styrofoam. We would have to subtract
> $27.45
> for the cost of insured airmail and padded packaging and I will prepay the
> return shipping of the wrong lens that you sent.
> So Payment in full would be-
> $575.43
> - 27.50 PayPal fee overcharge
> - 80.00 repair cost
> - 27.45 insured return airmail and packaging
>>Total $440.80
>>
>>I am prepared to pay this in full upon delivery of the correct lens.
>>When can I expect delivery of the Zuiko 21/2.0 lens serial # 101680
>>that I bought as pictured in your auction eBay Item #3809545405 ?
>>I am of course expecting that since it was your error that you will
>>cover the insured cost of shipping the correct lens to me and will
>>package it well as it is a beautiful looking lens in your picture, that .
>>would be much appreciated
>>Upon receipt of the correct lens I will forward payment in full and
>>return the lens that you mistakenly sent serial # 101664. Should
>>you wish to cover the full cost for a reputable escrow service (I must
>>approve of the choice), I am fine with allowing an independant agency
>>to handle the exchange of lenses and my payment in full. I can assure
>>you that you do not need to go to this expense as I have been eager
>>to get this resolved since April 13th when I first contacted you and
>>have a great interest in getting the actual lens that I purchased. I am
>>afraid that I must set a 30 day window on this as it has dragged on
>>way too long, failure on your part to honor the original sale by
>>Dec. 10th will force me to accept the loss of the $139.52 that you
>>have of my money, the cost of repair of the wrong lens you sent,
>>time loss preparing briefs for eBay, PayPal, Royal Bank and
>>Merchant Bank, at that time I will accept the wrong lens as fair and
>>equal settlement of these costs and will have no further contact or
>>business of any kind with you.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>Gordon John Ross CFP CLU ChFC RHU
>>
>>
>>PS There are 500 witness's to all correspondence.
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <chargeback-appeal2@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>To: "Gordon Ross" <gordross@xxxxxxx>
>>Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:40 AM
>>Subject: We have received your response - WHRR (KMM33370970V40415L0KM)
> :kf1
>>
>>
>>merge name="Full Name" leading="Dear " trailing=","/>
>>
>>We have received your reply regarding the disputed transaction. If you
>>have any additional information that will support your case please
>>forward it to us now. If you have no further information to supply,
>>please allow up to 30 days for our investigation to be completed.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>PayPal Chargeback Division
>>
>>This email is sent to you by the contracting entity to your User
>>Agreement, either PayPal Inc or PayPal (Europe) Limited. PayPal(Europe)
>>Limited is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority
>>in the UK as an electronic money institution.
>>>**********************************************************************
> **
>>Please do not reply to this e-mail. Mail sent to this address will not
>>be
> answered.>**************************************************************
> **********
>>
>>Your original request is below:
>>
>>Form Message
>>customer message: I followed all PayPals dispute resolution protocol,
>>which did not protect me from fraud. The chargeback was approved by
>>both the Canadian and Australian Banks as they could see the fraud.
>>The seller was kicked off ebay, he received partial payment from me
>>and since he would not rectify his fraud the payment he received that
>>wasn't part of the chargeback was deemed to be fair value for the item
>>he shipped. I will not consider re-opening this now old case, and will
>>never pay any amount to the felon in question. My actions did no harm
>>to PayPal and I request that this sorry episode not continue to cause my
>>account to be limited. I await your response.
> Thanks Gord
>
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