http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150621/PC16/150629842
Tina
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Bob Whitmire <fujixbob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I think you're correct in the historical point of view, but I think you
> misinterpreted what I said, or at least took a slightly different spin off
> it than that which I intended. If you consider the War of the Rebellion, as
> it's called up here in Occupied Canada, you extend from New Mexico across
> Kansas and Nebraska, to Minnesota and Michigan and all points east, which
> is a rather large chunk of the Contiguous 48. If you then add the number of
> people who moved even farther west to avoid the unpleasantness, you can see
> the war's impact on the entire Lower 48.
>
> Growing up in the San Francisco Bay area, I can understand how the
> unpleasantness farther east and long before may not have made an impact on
> you. Fair enough. But I can assure you that many of the people who made
> their way into that area immediately prior to and during the Civil War were
> profoundly aware of it.
>
> But my statement was "You don't have to have roots in Dixie . . ." which I
> believe not only to be accurate, but also to encompass rather large areas
> of real estate. I don't think I've ever been anywhere in this country, with
> the exception of Hawaii and Guam, that I haven't seen a Confederate flag in
> one form or another. The fact is, that flag started as a symbol of racism
> and oppression, was briefly diverted into a symbol of something rather
> nebulous and foggy that I call Southernness for lack of a better word, and
> has now reverted, thanks to contemporary bigots, to its original
> symbolism--and has expanded far beyond the borders of the old Confederacy.
> I suspect you'll see it where you don't expect to see it, if you're really
> looking, and your travels happen to take you into enclaves of White is
> Right folks. (Idaho comes immediately to mind.)
>
> But that's beside the point. Racism and bigotry are damned close to
> universal, and if folks don't dislike one species of human, they'll dislike
> another. As an aside, the first time I went West on an extended trip, I was
> surprised at the prejudice I encountered against Native Americans. I had
> always thought the pre-Columbian indigenous peoples of this continent were
> rather cool, and I was surprised to find that others did not hold my point
> of view. True, if I had _really_ thought about it, I would not have made
> that mistake. I also was surprised at the depths of bigotry displayed
> toward people from Mesoamerica. They weren't part of my experience. As for
> people of Asian origins, the degree of prejudice shown them _really_ took
> me by surprise. The old laws concerning Asians, particularly Chinese, in
> areas such as the one you grew up in, boggled me until I put them into the
> context of Southern Apartheid, and then they clarified.
>
> I hope I'm wrong, but I fear the old Confederate battle flag is going to be
> resurrected in many places that neither saw nor considered it in the past.
> It _is_ a powerful symbol of racism and oppression, and should _never_ be
> viewed as anything else. Just yesterday as Joan, Ben and I drove to
> Augusta, we passed two houses flying Confederate flags, one with a sign
> reading "Stand For Liberty." I would like to have climbed down from the car
> and ripped both of them off their poles, but I'm sure that would have
> resulted in physical altercations, and my arrest. Unlike Germany and it's
> Nazi symbolism, we can't outlaw symbols of the old Confederacy.
>
> But we don't have to mistake them for anything other than what they are.
>
> Next time I go that way, I may try to pull a Chris Crawford and get photos.
>
> PS: I realize some of the above screed is a bit of a non-sequitur rolling
> away from your post, and for that I apologize. For a lot of reasons I won't
> go into here because I've gone on long enough, I _really_ don't like that
> flag, and am deeply and profoundly offended by its presence on the current
> American landscape.
>
> --Bob Whitmire
> Certified Neanderthal
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Moose <olymoose@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > On 6/21/2015 2:41 PM, Ken Norton wrote:
> >
> >> Moose, I have absolutely no idea what point you were trying to make.
> >>
> >
> > All right, if you care enough to mention it ...
> >
> > Bob proposed this flag as a sort of universal symbol: "You don't have to
> > have roots in Dixie to display the Confederate flag as a symbol of ... "
> >
> > He offered as an example: "I see them up here from time to time."
> >
> > I suggested that the universe in which that flag has mind and heart space
> > as an important symbol may be smaller than he imagines from within it,
> > certainly including not only the South, but the Northern and other states
> > that were involved in the conflagration - but not the far West.
> >
> --
> _________________________________________________________________
> Options: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/listinfo/olympus
> Archives: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/private/olympus/
> Themed Olympus Photo Exhibition: http://www.tope.nl/
>
>
--
Tina Manley
www.tinamanley.com
tina-manley.artistwebsites.com
http://www.alamy.com/stock-photography/3B49552F-90A0-4D0A-A11D-2175C937AA91/Tina+Manley.html
--
_________________________________________________________________
Options: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/listinfo/olympus
Archives: http://lists.thomasclausen.net/mailman/private/olympus/
Themed Olympus Photo Exhibition: http://www.tope.nl/
|