Thanks a lot for these extensive information and I apologize for my delayed
reply which is certainly very unpolite. What is the best way to conduct and
experiment of battery capacity? Is there any way to do it? I always had the
feeling these third party batts I have were better than Olympus. I agree
Olympus charger sucks! I had the hope there was an advanced battery like
the ones you guys recommended for the flash long time ago. Eneloop batts
have been working really really well all these years. Again thanks a lot
for your useful feedback.
David
On Thursday, May 7, 2015, Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
> What Moose says. I have 2 Oly batteries and chargers (E-M5 and E-M1) plus
> 3 "EZO" batteries plus 2 Progo batteries and a Progo charger. I dislike
> the Oly chargers. They're bulky and have a long AC cord. I've adapted one
> of mine to use a collapsing built-in wall plug using an adapter sold for
> iPhone battery chargers. Gets rid of the bulky cord but not the bulky
> charger.
>
> I have 3 "EZO" batteries because I had ordered 2, one failed very soon and
> when I complained to the seller they sent 2 replacement batteries. I don't
> think that was out of the goodness of their hearts, just an error made by
> them. The 3 EZOs now seem to work reliably. I've never done any
> controlled testing on any of my batteries but The 3 EZOs seem to have
> somwwhat lower capacity in use than either the Progo or Oly batteries.
>
> Again, without any formal testing, I rate the Oly and Progo batteries as
> about equal in actual usage. But the Progo charger is itself worth buying
> the charger and the pair of batteries that come with it. The charger
> (except for its electrical contacts) is the same as I bought on ebay for my
> Samsung Point & Shoot. It's very light and compact and has a foldable wall
> plug. Unless I'm charging multiple batteries the Progo charger is the one
> I want to use. It charges all 3 battery brands with no problems as do the
> Oly chargers. Mechanically, the Oly chargers are better made but my usage
> preference is for the Progo charger. Right now I have an abundance of
> BLN-1 batteries but, when (not if) I need more I'll go for the Progo if
> it's still around.
>
> Like Moose said, I suspect your batteries are losing their Mojo due to age
> and possibly to heat damage... although I'm skeptical of that. Rechargable
> batteries typically have lives measured in a few years. Some can last much
> longer if properly treated (don't overcharge, don't run the charge level
> too low) but I doubt that many are treated with kid gloves as to charge
> level as the manufacturers would like.
>
> Finally thought to look up some expert knowledge. Wiki says
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Degradation
>
> Over their lifespan batteries degrade progressively, with reduced
> capacity, cycle life, and safety, due to chemical changes to the
> electrodes. Capacity loss/fade is expressed as a percentage of initial
> capacity after a number of cycles (e.g., 30% loss after 1,000 cycles). Fade
> can be separated into calendar loss and cycling loss. Calendar loss results
> from the passage of time and is measured from the maximum state of charge.
> Cycling loss is due to usage and depends on both the maximum state of
> charge and the depth of discharge.[51][100]
>
> Degradation is strongly temperature-dependent; increasing if stored or
> used at higher temperatures. High charge levels and elevated temperatures
> (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss.[66] Carbon
> anodes generate heat when in use. Batteries may be refrigerated to reduce
> temperature effects.[101]
>
> Pouch and cylindrical cell temperatures depend linearly on the discharge
> current.[102] Poor internal ventilation may increase temperatures. Loss
> rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F),
> and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). In contrast, the calendar life of LiFePO
> 4 cells is not affected by high charge states.[103][104]
>
> The advent of the SEI layer improved performance, but increased
> vulnerability to thermal degradation. The layer is composed of
> electrolyte—carbonate reduction products that serve both as an ionic
> conductor and electronic insulator. It forms on both the anode and cathode
> and determines many performance parameters. Under typical conditions, such
> as room temperature and the absence of charge effects and contaminants,
> after the first charge the layer reaches a fixed thickness, allowing the
> device can operate for years. However, operation outside such parameters
> can degrade the device via several reactions.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Chuck Norcutt
>
>
> On 5/6/2015 5:54 PM, Moose wrote:
>
>> On 5/6/2015 8:23 AM, David Irisarri wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have to E-M5 cameras, 2 years ago when I bought them there wasn't
>>> Olympus BLN-1 batteries for sale yet so I bought the Premium Tech
>>> batteries with 1500mAh. I have to say that after two years I usually
>>> pick Premium Tech batteries instead of the Olympus ones because they
>>> last longer or it feels like it. A couple of weeks ago I traveled to
>>> South Spain to visit my parents (now I live in NJ :) and it was quite
>>> warm. Batteries were lasting like one to two hours max! even the
>>> Olympus batts sucked! I don't know anything about batts and I wonder
>>> if someone could recommend me high end BLN-1 batts for the E-M5.
>>>
>>
>> These batteries aren't immortal. If you have been using them heavily,
>> they may have simply lost capacity.
>>
>> I've never used mine where they were really hot for any length of time.
>> I have got out to shoot in 105+°F weather, but not for long, before
>> retreating into AC. :-) Continued use in high temps may also hasten aging.
>>
>> is there a 2000 mAh battery for the E-M5?
>>>
>>
>> I rather doubt it. Energy density only goes up slowly, if at all, in
>> mature battery types, so size tends to limit capacity.
>>
>> Also, I'm not sure the printed ratings are entirely meaningful in terms
>> of actual usage:
>>
>> As with you, when I got my E-M5, spare Oly batteries weren't available
>> (and ridiculously expensive). I bought a couple of Wasabi Power
>> batteries, rated at 1300 mAh, vs. the 1220 of the Oly BLN-1. When I
>> sorta kept track of life, there was a fair amount of variation, due to
>> how I was using the camera, camera settings, temp., etc. But overall, it
>> was clear that the Wasabis gave significantly fewer shots pics per
>> charge than the Oly.
>>
>> I added a Progo to the mix, because, unlike the Wasabis, it could share
>> the Oly charger, and was supposed to show charge level more accurately
>> in the camera. It's rated at 1600 mAh, but it didn't seem to me to have
>> more practical capacity than the Oly.
>>
>> Then I read a review (reviews?) of the Progos on Amazon asserting a lot
>> of stuff about voltages, chargers and capacities. The gist of it is that
>> the Progos get their higher capacity rating in part through a higher
>> nominal voltage, 7.6v, vs. 7.4 for the Olys. At least one guy claimed to
>> have confirmed through testing that the Progos didn't reach their full
>> capacity charged on the Oly charger. (And the reverse, the reason for
>> which, if I knew it, I've forgotten, was claimed to be true.)
>>
>> The other factor, impossible to fully verify, is that batteries other
>> than the Olys don't quite communicate properly with the camera. I
>> certainly felt this was true of the Wasabis. My assumption, based on
>> experience with the Wasabis and thought/speculation, is that the camera,
>> when not getting full info from the battery, takes the safe road, and
>> shuts down at a certain voltage, rather than risking lost shot(s) and
>> unexpected shut down from insufficient power. With their own, and well
>> reverse engineered third party, batteries, they can rely on working
>> closer to the end of battery power.
>>
>> The Premium Tech batteries I see on Amazon say that, like the Wasabis,
>> they can only be charged on their own charger, not the Oly charger.
>> Which probably means they aren't fully coded to communicate with the
>> camera and thus may give you unreliable charge remaining indication on
>> the camera and leave some of their charge unused.
>>
>> In any case, I wanted interchangeability on the road, so purchased a set
>> of two more Progos with a Progo charger. Although I match battery and
>> charger brand when practical, I like that I can mix and match with no
>> problem but perhaps a few less shots out of a battery one time.
>>
>> I prefer the third party chargers because they can operate on 12v when
>> we are on the road in our little RV. So I tend to use the Progos most on
>> the road.
>>
>> Later OMDs add a quick sleep (and wake) function that I think will
>> extend battery life significantly on the E-M5 II.
>>
>> Fully Powered Moose
>>
>> --
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