2WD Lexus RX-450h (which I drive) uses an electric motor integral with the
CV transmission. I thought later model Prius used the same, as both are
Toyota products.
---
Scott
On Jul 25, 2011 10:21 AM, "Ken Norton" <ken@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Wikipedia - Toyota Prius: Each battery pack uses 1015 kg (2233 lb) of
> > lanthanum. As each electric motor in Prius also contains 1 kg (2 lb) of
> > neodymium.
>
> Somebody screwed up the battery pack figures. :) NOT EVEN.
>
> The Electric motor magnet amount is also a misleading figure. BOTH
> electric motors in the Prius have a total of 2 pounds of neodymium.
> What isn't mentioned is that most new vehicles have alternators and
> starters with around a pound of neodymium. Or how about the speakers
> for the sound systems? Your home stereo possibly has more neodymium in
> just ONE speaker.
>
> The battery pack does use lanthanum. Sure. But would anybody care to
> think about all the rare-earth elements INCLUDING lanthanum in the
> NiMH batteries we put in our camera flashes? Or what about all the
> stuff in our Lithium Ion battery camera batteries? Let's not single
> out JUST the Prius here. Anybody getting that nit-picky better start
> growing their own hair-shirts.
>
> Besides, another thing the anti-Prius crowd totally neglect to mention
> is that the magnets in the motors and the battery packs are recycled,
> recovering for reuse all of these rare-earth elements. However, in the
> case of Toyota, this is a slight problem. These Prius are lasting too
> long and not wearing out. The GM products should not be a problem in
> that regard, though. The Hondas have also been short-term casaulties
> of their own design. (The only hybrid that is giving vehicle lifetimes
> on the batteries is the Prius).
>
> A parallel to all this is aluminum. The amount of energy required to
> convert alum to aluminum is massive. It is extremely inefficient and
> when you factor in the carbon-footprint which a billet of new aluminum
> has, steel looks mighty environmentally friendly indeed. No need to
> save 50% the weight on anything because you'll never recoup that
> savings in carbon-footprint. But the moment that aluminum is recycled
> and reprocessed for its second use, the carbon-footprint argument
> completely disappears.
>
> As to vehicle weight, the weight of a vehicle today is completely
> governed by two things: Safety and Sound-Level. Bumpers, crush-zones,
> side-impact beams, air-bags, sound-proofing and more rigid body
> structures have caused a massive increase in vehicle weight. Oh, and
> seats, dashboards, sound systems, thicker/heavier glass, rollover
> structures to top it out. Not to mention catalytic converters,
> improved exhaust systems, safer gas tanks...
>
> I did mistype the other day. Each measured unit of energy recovery in
> the Prius is 50Wh. I did a little bit of experimentation this weekend
> to see what that equates to understandable terms. From a standard
> highway speed of 55mph (USA 2-lane road standard speed limit), the
> Prius will typically recover 50Wh in coasting the vehicle to a stop
> without the use of friction brakes. If you are careful, you can
> actually stop the vehicle without ever using the friction brakes,
> except for the final 5mph where you need to be a little more abrupt
> and also the vehicle does use the friction brakes to hold position.
>
> Discounting the loss of energy through conversion, that 50Wh is
> applied to either accelleration or speed maintenance--energy not
> required to come from the ICE (internal combustion engine). In-town
> driving results in a typical recovery of 100-150Wh of energy over a 5
> minutes period of time. (recovered energy denotes wasted energy and
> hyper-milers will attempt to reach a point of zero energy recovery
> through normal highway driving).
>
> When there isn't enough coasting or slowing to regenerate enough
> electricity, the ICE will produce just enough extra power required to
> recharge. As the ICE has several specific points of maximum efficiency
> (no need to build an engine with a broad power/torque curve, just need
> a couple points of maximum power-per-measurement of gas), the battery
> is either being used to boost output power to make up the deficit, or
> recovering excess energy from the overabundance of power.
>
> The Prius isn't too picky about where the battery charge level is at.
> It seems to work in about five minute averages. Over a five minute
> period of time, if you are stuck in stop-and-go traffic, for example,
> it'll just let the battery run things, until the level gets too low
> and then the ICE will kick in for just long enough to keep it from
> getting any lower. When you start moving again, it'll use the ICE to
> produce just enough energy to get it back in the middle someplace and
> will use recovered energy to take it up the rest of the way. After a
> few minutes of regular driving the battery is back up a ways and it
> only take a couple of good coasts to top it back off.
>
> There are two motors in a Pruis hybrid drive system. One is more
> directly coupled to the ICE itself and is used to start the motor and
> then is used as a generator. The second is more directly coupled to
> the drive-shaft and is used to provide power to the wheels, but also
> dynamically switches to the role of generator if the torque is coming
> from the wheels. Everything is intertwined, though and all four things
> are kinda meshed together in some sick kind of way that makes about as
> much sense as a bumblebee flying. A lot of the electrical energy
> produced by the ICE goes directly to the propulsion electric motor,
> which would technically be wasted energy through the
> double-conversion, but the electric motor is much more efficient in
> regards to torque and this allows the ICE to be pretty wimpy. In the
> end, it all works out well.
>
> So, to wrap this up, when you consider the recycleability of
> everything in a Prius AND use a proper apples-to-apples comparision
> with other vehicles (my aluminum vs. steel example), there is no
> ignoring that the Prius is truely "green". It'll just take a long time
> before they wear out enough to get recycled, but it will eventually
> happen.
>
> I've been a little upset about our gas mileage the past couple of
> weeks. When the heat gets way up in the '90s, the air-conditioner has
> to run more. When the temp is about 98 degrees, this translates to
> about a 10% loss of gas mileage as compared to peak performance around
> 72 degrees. My wife is tired of my grousing that we only got 46.5 MPG
> on the last tank. (That's a fully overloaded Prius driven on hilly
> highways in very high heat using marginal gas in windy conditions).
>
> I will complain about two things, though. Legroom for me is pitiful.
> The car is painful to me, but that is not atypical these days. The
> other thing is my taillights. The way the taillights are designed, the
> bulbs overheat and burn out. I'm going through a bulb a week right
> now.
>
> AG
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