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Re: [OM] Oh My Heart! [was Down the rabbit hold]

Subject: Re: [OM] Oh My Heart! [was Down the rabbit hold]
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 12:16:01 -0400
John's credentials list is also a bit short.  Here are 15 screens worth 
of background, positions held and publications. 
<https://www.statineffects.com/bgolomb/>

But I'll repeat again that, as regards CHD and cholesterol there just 
ain't a whole lot of medicine in it.  It is essentially almost 
exclusively epidemiological data.  If you have a modest amount of 
university level statistical education you can understand it without 
much difficulty.  But that's exactly why the typical doc doesn't 
understand it.  Usually no statistics education whatsoever.  And even if 
you do understand the stats you have to look in the detail to get the 
real story.

Finally I'll say that, if you peruse the papers on thincs.org, you will 
see that they often reference well known and supposedly supportive 
studies of the diet/heart hypothesis (such as the Framingham Heart 
Study) but with very different conclusions.  That is from actually 
reading all the contradictory data in the study which the authors may 
choose to ignore in the abstracts.  Unfortunately, these sorts of 
shenanigans have a long history which goes back to to the study that 
started it all, the 1958 study by Ancel Keys called "The Seven Countries 
Study" which purported to show a near perfect correlation between fat 
content in the diet and CHD in seven different countries.  But there was 
actually data available to Keys for 21 countries, not just seven.  If 
you use all 21 countries Keys's near perfect correlation dissolves into 
what looks like random noise.  Even if you use the original seven 
countries but look at regional data the correlations also fall apart. It 
became obvious later on that Keys had carefully cherry-picked the data 
to be presented.  It is speculated that Keys was motivated to "prove his 
point" since his diet/CHD theory, based on an earlier 1953 study, had 
been dissed in a WHO meeting in Geneva in 1954.  Unfortunately, drug 
company control of the studies perpetuates the motivation to follow in 
Keys's lead.

Chuck Norcutt


Charles Geilfuss wrote:
>   Nothing too unusual there John. Most US medical schools have an MD/PhD
> program in which they run concurrently. I had a number of classmates who did
> this and ended up getting their PhD a year or two after finishing medical
> school.
> 
> Charlie
> 
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 9:40 AM, John Hudson <OM4T@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>> Did anyone take a look at Ms Golomb's CV ?
>>
>> PhD .. biology. June 1988
>> MD ....... June 1989
>>
>> I hope her medical opinions are better than her quickie one year medical
>> starter degree
>>
>> Sorry for being a cynic !
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chuck Norcutt" <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: "Olympus Camera Discussion" <olympus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 11:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [OM] Oh My Heart! [was Down the rabbit hold]
>>
>>
>>> Anyone on statins or thinking about doing so should see this page from
>>> Beatrice Golomb at the University of California at San Diego.  She
>>> studies statin side effects and the effects of lowered cholesterol on
>>> the elderly.  This page is on side effects, common and not so common.
>>> <https://www.statineffects.com/info/adverse_effects.htm>
>>> As Charlie reported one of the lesser known side effects is on sexual
>>> function and he is lucky his doctor was aware of it.  Many doctors are
>>> not aware of anything except the truly serious side effects such as the
>>> possibility of rhabdomyolysis (which can kill you).  One of my concerns
>>> at the moment is a friend of mine who has recently been diagnosed with
>>> early stage alzheimer's.  He had also been taking Lipitor for some
>>> period of time prior to the alzheimer's diagnosis.  Unfortunately,
>>> another one of the lesser known side effects of statins is loss of
>>> memory and thinking ability including well documented cases of total
>>> amnesia that were eventually reversed on discontinuation of the drug.  I
>>> have suggested to him and his wife that I thought it would be prudent to
>>> discuss this possibility with the doctor and to try at least a few
>>> months with no statins.  I know they discussed it with him... but I also
>>> know that he's still taking Lipitor.  Obviously he didn't agree. I'm
>>> just dumbfounded since the man has never had a heart attack.
>>>
>>> ps:  Charlie might consider taking her side effects survey
>>> <https://www.statineffects.com/>
>>>
>>> Chuck Norcutt
>>>
>>>
>>> Chris Barker wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Moose (and, again, Chuck).
>>>>
>>>> According to AndrewF, I am Type A, based on my anxiety about the
>>>> whereabouts of Jon Mitchell when we were supposed to be meeting in
>>>> London last year.
>>>>
>>>> And I reckon that I could do with modifying my emotions to a certain
>>>> degree.  But most importantly, I am now against taking statins for
>>>> more concrete reasons that the vague antipathy I felt a few months
>>>> ago.
>>>>
>>>> Bring on the butter and full-cream milk!
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> On 26 Jun 2010, at 02:03, Moose wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Majority snipped ...
>>>>
>>>>> His research led him to believe that two primary behaviors
>>>>> constituted the definition of Type A and were a major cause of CHD.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Inappropriate anger. That is, anger out of proportion or even
>>>>> completely inappropriate to the apparent cause. We tended to refer
>>>>> to it as Free Floating Hostility.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Time urgency. Anxiety and strain inappropriate, often wildly so,
>>>>> to the true time demands on the person.
>>> --
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