On 5/21/2010 9:35 PM, Ken Norton wrote:
>> Credit Where Credit Is Due Moose
>>
> Well, I'm not blasting Canon for what they've done and I think I've been
> pretty clear that a lot of the fault belongs to the buyers.
I know this is a theme in your thinking, and I simply disagree. Just
because they didn't make the camera you would like them to make doesn't
necessarily mean they didn't make the camera lots of other people wanted
them to make, or the camera the should have made, from a corporate
perspective.
To assume that my choice of product to buy is wrong because it isn't
what you think I should buy is arrogant and condescending. What really
makes it seem absurd to me in this particular case is that I suspect the
likelihood of your buying a "correct" 5D III with all the things you say
are missing approaches zero.
You aren't even their target market - people who will spend money on the
product. They aren't in still business because they target products for
window shopping critics. Used film cameras, used, obscure 4/3 camera,
used lenses - how would Canon be remotely interested in what you say
they should make? I'm not saying there in anything at all wrong with
your choice of tools, just that they hardly qualify you as a critic in
this arena.
> It's like General Motors--as long as people kept buying junk they kept making
> junk. Was GM's producing junk the fault of GM or was it the fault of the
> buying public for enabling them to do so?
Ah, you make my point for me. Back in 1995, I bought a GM product so bad
that it was on CU's do not buy list, as well as yours. And yet, I went
in with my eyes open, still mightily enjoy my Olds convertible and have
never for a moment in the intervening 15 years felt that I made a
mistake. I hope it lasts forever.
Before I bought, I looked at and often test drove all the others,
including a Benz that was three times the price - used, had no trunk
room and a crappier back seat. The only mistake I made? Listening to all
the nay sayers and buying an extended warranty. The only two serious
things that went wrong, a transmission seal and the alternator, were
fixed under the original warranty. I do need to buy it a new top,
though; even garaged, they eventually wear out - and I do put it up and
down a lot.
So how about giving your often valuable personal opinions of gear in a
way that informs, but without the need to call those of use who have
different opinions, experience and desires idiots.
> [blah, blah, blah]
>
> Now, you could say that I'm being a bit unfair by comparing Canon to GM.
> Maybe so. There is no denying that Canon is extremely successful for a
> reason, but for the better part of a hundred years, so was GM.
Wait maybe, until they put out major products that don't sell. I say
products, plural, remembering the Edsel.
> Success does not necessarily mean that they are doing things correctly, but
> it usually means that the competition is more incompetent than you.
>
Smartest thing you've said in ages. :-) Many years ago, I was training
a new employee. She was very smart and a bit impatient. After looking
and learning for a few weeks, she asked how our huge company had
possibly survived and thrived for so long, given the obvious foolishness
and incompetence. I said to her pretty much what you just said.
She stayed around long enough to find a job more suited to her. Pretty
soon, she was planning director for a small city. A job I would hate,
but well suited to her.
> [Stuff I don't know enough about to respond to]
>
> I guess, we all have to wait to see if I'm right or if I'm off the
> reservation.
From my perspective, you were already wrong, in your first contention,
in that you bashed them for making a product that's aimed a different
place than you would have liked. Based on sales and on other responses
here to your original post, those here who have or anticipate buying one
found it a compelling combination of price and capabilities.
I'll bet none of them would have bought or be interested in buying, a
professional HD video camera that happens to make great still images -
at the necessary size and price.
If I get a cat, are you going to call me a fool for not getting a dog
instead? The 5D II is a hit for Canon and thousands of users, and would
still be so if no one at all had used it for pro video production. I
just think you are barking (ha, ha) up the wrong tree on this.
> If Canon does answer the needs, we'll see different viewfinder options and
> liveview HDMI output for not just recording internally, but external record
> devices as well as live broadcast or centralized capture.
> I'm hoping that Canon delivers, but I suspect that they'll save most of that
> for a dedicated video camera.
>
Indeed, and we will certainly have to wait to see if they fall prey to
the second part of your rant/prediction. I've got no dog in that fight.
I'll bet if they don't compete in that market it will be as a result of
market analysis that determines the potential isn't worth the
investment. Canon is a mass market company, and so far, they seem to be
smart enough to know it.
Whether such a decision is foolish or wise is impossible to know
beforehand. Different industry, but I've done the analyses, been in the
meetings, agreed and disagreed with the decisions. Sometimes I was wrong
and they were right, sometimes the reverse, sometimes we were both right
or wrong, almost got myself fired more than once. I've seen enormous
amounts of money made or lost. I've seen big mistakes made, but never
without a lot of analysis, thought and soul-searching.
It's easy to snipe. It's HARD, really HARD, to make the right decisions
even most of the time. Even though I agreed with him, and was afraid he
would do the opposite, watching the CEO send everybody else out of the
room so he could tell a Senior VP that all the time, money and effort he
and the people in his Division had spent over years on a new proposal
were not to come to fruition was a hard thing to watch, as was the
reaction to the news on the part of my friends and acquaintances on his
team.
Moose
PS: Feel better now about having momentarily lost the title of most
ranted at?
--
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