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[OM] Re: (Wildly OT) Electric heaters

Subject: [OM] Re: (Wildly OT) Electric heaters
From: Chuck Norcutt <chucknorcutt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:33:58 -0400
Here's some commentary on quartz electric heaters.
<http://forums.howwhatwhy.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=machines&Number=262499&fpart=1>
Note especially the probable limitation of about 1500 watts if it's 
designed to plug into a 110 volt socket.  That's about the same output 
as your Mr. Coffee. (1.5 kwh if on for an hour).  After doing a little 
research on electricity prices in Maine (anywhere from 2 to 11 cents per 
kwh depending on source and an average somewhere between 6 and 10 cents) 
  if you're paying, say, 8 cents/kwh you could run a 1500 watt heater 
for 12-1/2 hours for $1.00.  Up to you to figure out if adding the 
equivalent of a Mr. Coffee to your room will make any difference to your 
comfort.

If you have hot water heat I'd consider adding another heating zone to 
the area.

Chuck Norcutt

Tim Hughes wrote:
> Bob,
>     in general electric heaters are bad for the environment, although a point 
> of use heater if it
> allows you to cut your overall energy use by setting your thermostat to a 
> much lower *average*
> temperature for the whole house can work well.   
> 
> All types of electric heaters are similar in efficiency, although having a 
> blower etc can make
> percieved comfort better. Any claims that one electric heater is more 
> efficient than another at
> generating heat, is bogus science.
> 
> The general reason electric heating is bad, is that most of our electricity 
> is generated from
> burning fossil fuel and to generate electricity the best possible conversion 
> efficiency is limited
> by a heat engine Carnot cycle. This means electricity conversion from the 
> heat content in the
> original fuel is under 40% maybe 30% after losses of distribution etc. I 
> don't have exact numbers
> at my fingertips, but it is well under 50%.  If you heat your house by 
> burning fuel oil or gas
> directly the conversion efficiency could in theory approach 100%,  but it 
> depends on furnace
> design. I know for example even cheap Gas Water heaters run 70%, a bit more 
> for a power vent
> designs and if you have a more expensive internal combustion design they can 
> run up to 95%.  So
> heating directly with gas or oil probably is at very least twice as efficient 
> in terms of carbon
> produced and likely better.   From a purely financial viewpoint though, it 
> depends on relative
> cost per BTU from different fuels which can vary a lot short term, because of 
> contracts,hedging
> etc by utilities. Over the long term the cost/BTU tends to even out for 
> different fuels, since
> market forces even it out.  In the US Natural gas prices for example vary 
> widely, state to state.
> I seem to remember Utah for example has much lower prices (~0.5X ?) than 
> other places etc.
> 
> Long term improving your house insulation ,Super -E double glazing, roof 
> insulation etc. would
> make economic and environmental sense.
> 
> Tim Hughes.
> 
> 
> --- Bob Whitmire <bwhitmire@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>> Again, wildly off topic as far as photography is concerned, but I  
>> post questions here because I know there are folks on the list who  
>> have the kind of knowledge I'm looking for.
>>
>> So those of you who heat with oil know this coming winter is likely  
>> to be a nightmare for your bank account. We just got our EasyCap  
>> payment statement from the oil company, and we're going to be  
>> shelling out $489 a month for 10 months to keep our furnace fed this  
>> winter. (Unless, as some say, oil prices are on a bubble that's ripe  
>> for bursting. I'm not holding my breath.)
>>
>> A huge number of folk are turning to wood pellet stoves, so many in  
>> fact, that the stoves are backordered and there's no guarantee enough  
>> pellets will be available during the winter. I'm intrigued, but I'm  
>> not particularly in favor of encouraging the burning of even more  
>> fuels that directly dump assorted undesirable gasses into the  
>> atmosphere.
>>
>> Cord wood is going for about $262 a cord for green wood, and if you  
>> don't already have dried wood, forget it. Not going to get any.
>>
>> So I've been looking at electric heaters, space and otherwise. One I  
>> find intriguing is the quartz infrared heater. It retails for about  
>> $250-$300, claims to run on about $1 a day, and, if the claims are  
>> anywhere near true, would be able to take the edge off in, say, my  
>> upstairs work area, so that I could keep the thermostat at about 55F  
>> and run the heater while I'm working.
>>
>> Esteemed wife is looking at Vornado electric space heaters for her  
>> fitness studio. She has elderly clients, and needs to have the studio  
>> heated to about 68F. But she doesn't have that many clients in the  
>> winter, and these Vornados appear to be the type that would heat up  
>> the space quickly then turn off, at minimal cost in electricity.  
>> Again, the thermostat could be left at 55F, or even lower.
>>
>> Of course I know nothing about electric heater technology these days,  
>> but I do know there are all kinds of claims starting to circulate  
>> about how to beat the high cost of oil heat. And I know a few people  
>> who have ceramic space heaters who tote them from room to room in  
>> winter and claim to save a considerable amount of money off their  
>> fuel bills. If anyone on the list has already done the research, or  
>> is familiar with such things as quartz infrared heat, please advise.  
>> Off list, if you don't want to clog up the photo stuff, though my  
>> guess is there are more than just me who might be interested.
>>
>> Thanx in advance,
>>
>> --Bob Whitmire
>> www.bwp33.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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