Hi Chris:
At 07:48 PM 1/23/00 +0000, you wrote:
Yes Denton, you have a point but ...
The trade was not in Nazi items per se, but in products from the
concentration camps - including parts of people.
OK, but no one said that. AFAIK 'Nazi memorabilia', refers to swastikas,
flags, pennants, helmets, medals, etc. That anyone is interested in the
above, is certainly distasteful, to put it mildly. OTOH these things remind
us of the evil mankind is capable of, no? (I believe the Holocaust Museum
in Washington displays certain of these items, does it not?) Anyway, IMHO,
if this kind of trade is so disgusting and detrimental to a civilized
society, then the people should rise up and demand that their
representatives pass a law to make it illegal--not harass computerized
listing services.
There is probably no point in continuing this discussion because you and I
will probably not agree; although we have many interests in common, we in
Great Britain *sometimes* have a different viewpoint about politics and
society in general. One of the things that I find most confusing about
the First (or Fifth?) amendment is that freedom of expression is
considered sacrosanct almost regardless of how much suffering is caused as
a result of that expression.
I don't know that we disagree much... anyway, the First Amendment of the
Constitution states...
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances."
This little paragraph for example allows the Ku Klux Klan to hold
demonstrations under police protection, no matter how much suffering the
presence of the Klan causes black folk, Jews, and Catholics. However it
_also_ allows these groups as well as other right-thinking folk to march
against them.
The great framers of our Constitution had little trust in government and
wanted to be sure that all ideas, no matter how strange, could be put
before the people. We often speak of this as 'sunshine'. It is better that
sick philosophies such as Nazism, racism, Fascism, etc., see the 'light of
day' so they can be debated and crushed rather than to have them exist in
darkness where they can flourish, hidden away. The importance of this
surpasses the right of any individual who, as you say, may 'suffer as a
result of that expression'.
This same amendment refers to the below, which I will not go into as it
will certainly start another war!
I'm pretty sure that the Christian education in State Schools versus no
religion at all argument is wound up in this same debate. (We were lucky
enough to find a good Catholic private school in Tampa when we lived there
in 88-90).
So you see, we may as well stop before we start.
More to the point who or what is Van Gloeden?
Ah yes, back to photography... Wilhelm Von Gloeden was born in 1856 into an
affluent family, and grew up to be an open homosexual. He moved to Italy
for health reasons, and in the late 1800s took up photography. He managed
to combine his interests in photography and young boys, and produced
thousands of glass plates of nude young men, often posed in ancient Greek
and Roman themes (vases, togas, etc.). Many of his photos sold extremely
well, resulting in large royalty payments to the models, which kept the
locals quiet. What's interesting about his models is how 'peasant' they
appear; dirty feet, rough hands, etc. Von Gloeden died in 1931. According
to material I have, in 1936, due to a Fascist-Vatican alliance, the
caretaker of Van Gloeden's archives was arrested and charged with 'Keeping
Pornography'. His plates were impounded. He was acquitted at trial but most
of the plates were destroyed, as they were not returned until after WWII
and had been destroyed or damaged in storage.
His work is quite unlike anything you will see, so have a look if you get a
chance... Anyway, it presses all the wrong buttons for certain folk... it's
in-your-face gay, the models are mostly under 18, etc.
And NOT taken with an Olympus!
________________________________
Regards,
Denton Taylor
Photogallery at www.dentontaylor.com.
Panoramas and Immersive Imaging at
www.threehundredsixty.com
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