On 9 Jan 98 at 18:48, Lars Bergquist wrote:
> >3) Shawn : I should get myself a copy of The Negative. I can feel it in
> >my toes that this is a book I'm going to learn one hell of a lot from,
> >but at this moment, those Roman figures are driving me nuts.
>
> If you can find it, R.J. Henry, Controls in Black-and-White Photography
> (2nd ed., focal Press, 1986) is a better choice. St. Ansel got lots of things
> wrong (including the entire Zone System) but Henry debunked lots of
> traditional darkroom nonsense. He was a scientist with a scientific mind.
I think as long as you don't take Adams' advice too literally, you are fine.
Trying to apply his advice with your own technique will surely result in
problems, something which he frequently warns against. His books are more of a
layman's guide, since he never pretended to be a scientist.
> >5) Lars : 'grain like macadam', got to remember that expression. If I
> >understand Gene correctly, the grain doesn't get larger, only more
> >noticable. Or is it really possible to get a "Single-Grain Negative"
> >(tm) ?
>
> I cannot at all agree with Shawn's statement that grain is determined
> in manufacture. Undeveloped film does not have any grain at all, only
> microscopic halide crystals, invisible except under magnificatiuons
> above 50--100 X or more.
Actually, it wasn't me who said this, although I do tend to agree, at least in
practical terms. Take a film like HP5+ compared to Pan F. PanF has a much
thinner coating of silver, which in nearly all cases will result in a finer
grain. Sure, you could probably get HP5+ to give as fine grain as PanF if
exposed at EI 25 or 50, but why would you want to? And conversely, I have
pushed PanF and seen it show nearly as much grain as HP5+, but with extreme
contrast.
> I have been developing film since the 'fifties, in most developers known
> to man. I have been a steady Tri-X user, developing both in Rodinal and
> in 'fine grain compensating developers' such as D-76. Some years ago,
> I wanted to use TMax 100 in my OMs for landscape work during a long
> solo hike in Lapland (see my links page at
> http://www.bahnhof.se/~timberwolf/english.html ). I wanted a method
> to reduce negative grain. The developer was TMax Developer.
> First, I tried the classical method, more exposure and less development,
> the technique which in the 'thirties led to modern compensating developers.
> Fine, but development times became too short to be controlled. So I diluted
> the working solution 1 + 1 with plain water. That lengthened the time OK,
> but the negs were extremely flat. I surmised (correctly, as I found later)
> that the cause was the drop in alkalinity; TMD is very sensitive to that.
> I hit on the idea of diluting not with plain water but with a 10 percent
> sodium sulphite solution. Bingo! Very printable negatives, but the grain was
> so fine that it was nearly impossible to focus the enlarger on it ... The
> superstition that grain is ordained once and for all by the film manufacturer
> is an ancient but not a venerable one.
But what you have done is started with an already fine grain (and high
accutance) developer/film combo, and added a silver solvent to further soften
the edges of the grain, similar to what Microdol-X and Perceptol will do,
right?
I have negs on PanF developed in Perceptol from over 10 years ago which also
exhibit nearly invisible grain when enlarging to 20x30". So it's not surprising
you can get similar results with a slightly faster film today, which uses the
latest T-grain technology.
I don't think anyone would claim that grain is written in stone by the
manufacturer. Even comparing the results of Ilford's suggested film/dev combos
with a particular film will reveal a wide range of grain sizes, and these are
conservative combinations to say the least.
========================
Shawn Wright
Computer Systems Manager
Shawnigan Lake School
250-743-6240
swright@xxxxxxxxx
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